Gamgee wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

If alien voter fraud is an issue, then acceptable identification should
be free.

Nope. Alien <anything> (and especially voting) is a CRIME. Making it legal by a free ID is wrong, as the person is still an illegal alien.

No, the idea is to require voter ID and make acceptable ID available for
free to citizens - not provide IDs to illegal aliens to vote.

The heritage foundation reported 77 cases of illegal alien voter fraud
between 2003 and 2023. The SAVE act is about disenfranchising voters.

other election for President or Vice President, for electors for
President or Vice President, or for Senator or Representative in
Congress, shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or any State by reason of failure to pay any poll tax or other tax."

Otherwise, it's a poll tax.

Bullshit. It's a requirement to prove you are a citizen. I'm pretty
sure there are free state ID's in many cases. They don't have a social security number? That's an example of a free ID. How about a fucking birth certificate or naturalization certificate?

You may want to re-read the requirements of the SAVE act. A verified
SSN is needed in many states (if not all) to register to vote, but the
SAVE act is requiring additional proof at time of voting.

Millions lack access to a paper copy of their birth certificate. The
SAVE Act would disenfranchise Americans of all ages and races, but
younger voters and voters of color would suffer disproportionately.
Likewise, millions of women whose married names arenican citizens to show
documents like a passport or birth certificate to register to vote. Our
research shows that more than 21 million Americans lack ready access to
those documents.

How do you reconcile the fact that nobody bitches about having to show
an ID to buy liquor/cigarretes, or to cash a check, or a thousand other things? Why is having to do that for VOTING such a burden on anybody?

Last I checked, I didn't need to show a passport and proof of residency
for any of those things.

As always, digging a little deeper pays off. The SAVE America act,
the senate form of the bill, requires a passport or birth certificate to register and cast a ballot, unless the state submits their voter rolls
to DHS for verification - something the courts have overturned.




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MIKE POWELL wrote to UTOPIAN GALT <=-

The problem wasn't getting out of the US into Canada but coming back.
The requirements for return into the US were higher than for entering Canada.

Yeah, my wife has an English passport and is worried about visiting her
family - not getting there, coming back in.

Her story is illuminating. She has had a green card since the 1980s, and
hers didn't have an expiration date. It's perfectly valid, but TSA
threatened to withhold it on more than one occasion. She tried to get a replacement, but they saw her green card as valid and didn't see a need
to replace it. Then COVID hit, and it took 3 years for a replacement.
Luckily, during that time we were able to get a receipt showing her
new GC was in process, which worked once. Now she has a valid green
card, but who knows?

from https://prismreports.org/2025/09/09/under-trump-the-criminal-legal-system- now-targets-another-population-green-card-holders/

"There's no way to tell who's going to be targeted by the government
when they're trying to return," said Ría Thompson-Washington, the
president of the National Lawyers Guild. "We see this as an escalation
of attacks on immigrants, on people who have protected status."

Among the known public cases, most of the immigrants targeted by the
Trump administration were returning from overseas trips and nabbed by immigration officials when reentering the U.S.

"It's a very scary time for people to make decisions about whether
they're going to be able to get back into the country and under what circumstances," Thompson-Washington said.



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Nightfox wrote to Gamgee <=-

I didn't realize people were complaining about having to show an ID to vote. But I think one of the problems I've noticed, at least in some states (including mine), is that a state-issued driver's license can be accepted to vote, and you don't need to be a US citizen to get a
driver's license in the state.

It varies by state, but I'd be surprised if you didn't need proof of
citizenship to *register* to vote in every state. In California, you
need proof of citizenship and registry in California to register.

A photo ID is then needed to verify that you are the registered voter
the first time you vote. After that, you may be asked if they don't
have your ID information online.

The list of acceptable documents is pretty comprehensive to prove
identity at the voting booth. Your citizenship is documented at time of
registration.

It's been a while since I've voted at a polling place. I started doing
vote by mail when my mother was unable to travel to a polling place so
I knew the process. That's another facet of the many SAVE bills is to
also limit mail-in voting.

The number of illegal aliens voting is quite low, certainly too low to
merit this effort. Something else is afoot - voter disenfrancisement
and collecting information on citizens by DHS.

Did you know that one of the drafts of the the SAVE America act says
that if a state sends their registration rolls to DHS, they don't need
to check voter ID at the polling place? That collection of state
polling data by the US government is something the courts have shut
down multiple times.







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Gamgee wrote to Nightfox <=-

Oh yes, it's one of the HUGE issues to the far-left side of the
political spectrum (and ONLY that part of the political spectrum). The reasons they don't want that are.... obvious.

States rights? Reducing disenfranchisement of valid voters? Reducing
the government's illegal request for state voter rolls?

Yes, that is a problem. There are some non-citizens (those that are
here legally on a work visa, or similar) that do need a driver's
license. But yes, that leaves a loophole for voting if all that is
needed to show eligibility is a DL.

In most states, You need a photo ID to proof identity at the voting
booth. You need proof of residency and citizenship to register to vote.

I feel like that's a detail that's getting left out of the
conversation.

So that means there could be
non-citizens voting. In order to vote, I'd think they should require
ID that proves you're a citizen, such as a passport, social security
card, etc..

Absolutely agree 100%. So does every other sensible American citizen.

See above.



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MIKE POWELL wrote to GAMGEE <=-

How do you reconcile the fact that nobody bitches about having to show
an ID to buy liquor/cigarretes, or to cash a check, or a thousand other things? Why is having to do that for VOTING such a burden on anybody?

Best as I can tell he says he has never had to show ID to do those
things and therefore assumes neither have anyone else. <shrugs>

I've shown my drivers license to prove my age when buying
liquor/cigarettes, and to prove my identity when cashing a check. I've
not needed to prove citizenship to do so.




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Robert Wolfe wrote to GAMGEE <=-

Yes, that is a problem. There are some non-citizens (those that are
here legally on a work visa, or similar) that do need a driver's
license. But yes, that leaves a loophole for voting if all that is
needed to show eligibility is a DL.

Absolutely agree 100%. So does every other sensible American citizen.

I must be sensible then, because I totally agree with you 100% as well

The premise is invalid. You need to show proof of citizenship *and*
residency when registering to vote.

A non-citizen wouldn't be able to register to vote with just a DL - and
photo ID is required the first time you vote, at least that's how it's
done in my state.




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Gamgee wrote to MIKE POWELL <=-

Another thing you may have noticed is that he hasn't, and won't,
respond to my post, because it asks questions (like above) that are too hard to answer. Very typical of the Lefties.

I must be in Gamgee's twit filter. I see a couple of replies in this
packet alone.

Just to reinforce the whole point of my previous post (not for you, but for others) - I simply cannot understand why the Left (in general) is
*SO* opposed to requiring ID to vote. They claim it's because some
people ("the poor") are UNABLE to get any ID. If someone can explain
to me why it's harder for a "poor person" to acquire an ID than it is
for anybody else, I'd be very thankful.

Your argument is reductive. I'm not opposed to proof of identity to
vote. I, as someone you've lumped dismissively into a group you call
"lefties" on multiple occasions, think that's a good idea in theory, as
long as proof is not burdensome. Citizenship and residency are already
proven at the time of registration, and illegal voting is a red herring. Everyone agrees that illegal aliens voting is bad. How many documented
cases of illegal voting have there been?

There are other factors at play here, like disenfranchising poorer, predominately democratic voters. Eliminating mail-in voting. coercing
states to provide voter rolls, something that's failed in court multiple
times.

In the words of the head of the head of DHS, Noem said, `We've been
proactive to make sure we have the right people voting, electing the
right leaders to lead this country.'

I know I'm dumb (as a run-of-the-mill educated middle class white boy), but I just can't understand that "logic".

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Denn wrote to Gamgee <=-

It all goes to the progressive Democrat's that crave ultimate power.
They opened the floodgates during Bidens term and let 15 million + potential voters come in un vetted.

The left is opposed to voter ID because they believe 85% of illegal's will vote in their favor.

False.

As for the 15 million potential voters during Biden's presidency:

Based on available data, the claim that President Biden "let in" 15
million people is inaccurate; however, his administration has overseen record-high numbers of border encounters and releases. Total Encounters
(Not Admissions): From February 2021 through late 2024, U.S. Customs and
Border Protection (CBP) recorded more than 10 million nationwide
encounters with migrants. Encounters vs. Releases: "Encounters" refers
to events, not individuals, and includes people who are immediately
deported or expelled.

The total number of people released into the U.S.
is lower than the total encounter number. Estimated Releases: Reports
indicate that over 2 million to 3.6 million people were released into
the country to await immigration court hearings during this period.

"Gotaways": Estimates suggest roughly 2 million known "gotaways" evaded
border patrol during the Biden administration.

Misleading Claims: The figure of 15-20 million is often used by
political opponents, but fact-checkers have labeled claims that this
many people were "let in" as false or misleading, as they confuse total
border encounters with the net increase in the undocumented population.
While the number of people released is historically high, it does not
reach the 15 million mark mentioned in some political discourse.

Denn

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Re: Re: Bbsing
By: Robert Wolfe to GAMGEE on Sun Feb 15 2026 09:42 am

always thought that my vote didn't count.

What made you change your mind?

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poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Gamgee <=-

States rights? Reducing disenfranchisement of valid voters? Reducing
the government's illegal request for state voter rolls?

It would be helpful to reduce duplicate votes. We have it in California
where we send ballots to people who obviously left our state 4 years later.
If I moved to Georgia, my registration from California should be automatically canceled
within a month after registering.




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Re: Re: Bbsing
By: poindexter FORTRAN to MIKE POWELL on Mon Feb 16 2026 10:31 am

Her story is illuminating. She has had a green card since the 1980s,
and hers didn't have an expiration date. It's perfectly valid, but
TSA threatened to withhold it on more than one occasion. She tried
to get a replacement, but they saw her green card as valid and
didn't see a need to replace it. Then COVID hit, and it took 3 years
for a replacement. Luckily, during that time we were able to get a

bullshit.

every green card for resident aliens expire in 10 years.
that's how it works.
i lived with a woman with a green card. she had to renew it during covid.
she got it quite promptly.

receipt showing her new GC was in process, which worked once. Now she
has a valid green card, but who knows?

certainly not you because you don't know your wife's business obviously.

Among the known public cases, most of the immigrants targeted
by the Trump administration were returning from overseas trips and
nabbed by immigration officials when reentering the U.S.

"It's a very scary time for people to make decisions about whether
they're going to be able to get back into the country and under what circumstances," Thompson-Washington said.

more bullshit ignorant fear mongering. if the person is not a criminal, they have nothing to worry about. if they commit crimes as a resident alien, they might be deported.


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Re: Re: Bbsing
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Robert Wolfe on Mon Feb 16 2026 1

The premise is invalid. You need to show proof of citizenship *and* residency when registering to vote.

no you dont.
god damn are you smoking the democrat crack pipe today.


you show your id to prove who you are and you have to provide proof of redidency when you register to vote.

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Re: Re: Bbsing
By: Utopian Galt to poindexter FORTRAN on Mon Feb 16 2026 06:47 pm

poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Gamgee <=-

States rights? Reducing disenfranchisement of valid voters? Reducing the government's illegal request for state voter rolls?

It would be helpful to reduce duplicate votes. We have it in
California where we send ballots to people who obviously left our
state 4 years later. If I moved to Georgia, my registration
from California should be automatically canceled within a month
after registering.

back when trump was running for election the first time there were 2
coworkers of mine who got multiple mail in ballots for people they didnt
know to their address. ther was also video of mailmen selling stacks of mail in ballots to people.


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Re: Re: Bbsing
By: Denn to Gamgee on Sun Feb 15 2026 02:58 pm

The left is opposed to voter ID because they believe 85% of illegal's will vote in their favor.

There's plenty of stupid 'real Americans' who will also...

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Re: Re: Bbsing
By: MRO to Utopian Galt on Tue Feb 17 2026 02:28 am

back when trump was running for election the first time there were 2 coworkers of mine who got multiple mail in ballots for people they didnt know to their address. ther was also video of mailmen selling stacks of mail in ballots to people.

A few years after my Dad passed away, my brother who lives in CA got ballots for him in his name. I don't know if he got one last year.

However, my Dad has never lived in CA... not once in his life.

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³ There are other factors at play here, like disenfranchising poorer,
³ predominately democratic voters. Eliminating mail-in voting. coercing
³ states to provide voter rolls, something that's failed in court multiple
³ times.
ÀÄ[PF=>G]

FWIW, in Kentucky and some surrounding states, those most likely to be disenfranchised because they are "poor" are going to be predominately white Appalachians who predominately vote Republican.

##Mmr 2.61á. !link PF 2-16-26 10:31
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Bf2k+ wrote to Denn <=-

Re: Re: Bbsing
By: Denn to Gamgee on Sun Feb 15 2026 02:58 pm

The left is opposed to voter ID because they believe 85% of illegal's will vote in their favor.

There's plenty of stupid 'real Americans' who will also...

There's never been a presidential election swayed by illegal voting.
There's more at work here.



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Re: Re: Bbsing
By: Bf2k+ to MRO on Tue Feb 17 2026 06:06 am

Re: Re: Bbsing
By: MRO to Utopian Galt on Tue Feb 17 2026 02:28 am

back when trump was running for election the first time there were
2 coworkers of mine who got multiple mail in ballots for people
they didnt know to their address. ther was also video of mailmen
selling stacks of mail in ballots to people.

A few years after my Dad passed away, my brother who lives in CA got
ballots for him in his name. I don't know if he got one last year.

However, my Dad has never lived in CA... not once in his life.

and someone is manually requesting it for him. that's scary.
i also believe i said that years ago in my hometown someone was voting for me when i wasnt voting. i was able to track it on my state website.


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Re: Re: Bbsing
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Bf2k+ on Tue Feb 17 2026 06:55 am

Bf2k+ wrote to Denn <=-

Re: Re: Bbsing By: Denn to Gamgee on Sun Feb 15 2026 02:58 pm

The left is opposed to voter ID because they believe 85% of illegal's will vote in their favor.

There's plenty of stupid 'real Americans' who will also...

There's never been a presidential election swayed by illegal voting.
There's more at work here.

if i didn't know this guy for 20 years i'd swear he's a bot.


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On 17 Feb 2026, MRO said the following...

if i didn't know this guy for 20 years i'd swear he's a bot.

most of the responses are the same. an example of the message template:

when pF posts, something is off - as if he were a robot.

or

when father came home it was lights out - no more television.

very strange wording every single time.
something's amiss.

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Re: Re: Bbsing
By: fusion to MRO on Tue Feb 17 2026 05:22 pm

On 17 Feb 2026, MRO said the following...

if i didn't know this guy for 20 years i'd swear he's a bot.

most of the responses are the same. an example of the message
template:

when pF posts, something is off - as if he were a robot.

or

when father came home it was lights out - no more television.

very strange wording every single time. something's amiss.

he talks like some facebook/instagram bot.
it doesn't even seem like he has conversations. he's like a guy in an insane asylum having a conversation with a wall. he name drops old tech and stuff about punchcards. or talking about using wifi in a coffee house all the
time.

he was my feed for a msg net and his uptime was horrible. then later he was the feed for a buddy of mine and same issue.

it's hard to believe he's a manager, i honestly think he has some touch of dementia.

notice on his website on the bottom he's using a hispanic guy in a hoody as
his photo.
https://www.kurtweiske.com/about/

on his twitter he looks even more like some bot
https://x.com/poindexter


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While the number of people released is historically high, it does not
reach the 15 million mark mentioned in some political discourse.

So the claim in inaccurate but the facts are still "historically" not
good. ;)

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The premise is invalid. You need to show proof of citizenship *and* residency when registering to vote.

When I went to get my Real-ID drivers license I had my passport with me,
ready to show.

A non-citizen wouldn't be able to register to vote with just a DL - and photo ID is required the first time you vote, at least that's how it's
done in my state.

Same here, but every time I vote we have to show our photo ID.
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always thought that my vote didn't count.

What made you change your mind?

Would rather not start a heated political debate here, so I will take
the 5th on that one.

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Re: Re: Bbsing
By: Robert Wolfe to POINDEXTER FORTRAN on Wed Feb 18 2026 09:19 am

A non-citizen wouldn't be able to register to vote with just a DL -
and photo ID is required the first time you vote, at least that's
how it's done in my state.

Same here, but every time I vote we have to show our photo ID.

in my state when you register in person you show photo id and then a utility bill to prove you live in that area. then every time you show id and they look you up in the book.


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Re: Re: Bbsing
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Bf2k+ on Tue Feb 17 2026 06:55 am

There's never been a presidential election swayed by illegal voting. There's more at work here.

The 1960 election would like to say something.

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Re: Re: Bbsing
By: Utopian Galt to poindexter FORTRAN on Fri Feb 20 2026 0

Re: Re: Bbsing By: poindexter FORTRAN to Bf2k+ on Tue Feb 17 2026
06:55 am

There's never been a presidential election swayed by illegal voting. There's more at work here.

The 1960 election would like to say something.

also we have several examples of voter fraud on paper, on camera and with
first hand witnesses.

if you look on poindexer's twitter you see he's too busy deep throating
gavin to see past his balls.

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Re: Re: Bbsing
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Utopian Galt on Sat Feb 21 2026 0

There's more at work here.

The 1960 election would like to say something.

I meant "people in this country illegally" voting. Point taken about
the 1960 election, however.

yeah that happened too. people went to court over it.


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Re: Re: Bbsing
By: Nightfox to Gamgee on Sat Feb 14 2026 09:01 am

>

I didn't realize people were complaining about having to show an ID to vote. But I think one of the problems I've noticed, at least in some states (including mine), is that a state-issued driver's license can be accepted to vote, and you don't need to be a US citizen to get a driver's license in the state. So that means there could be non-citizens voting. In order to vote, I'd think they should require ID that proves you're a citizen, such as a passport, social security card, etc..

In Spain, voters are pre-registered. This means each voting table has a list of people who is allowed to vote at that table. In order to vote you need to show up with your National Identity Card and they check you and your card are in that list before they let you vote.

National Identity Card is an "existence tax" and it is mandatory to have past a given age. It also has a cryptographical chip with a certificate for use for signing and online banking and such.

I hate the fact it is mandatory for existing but the idea of voting tables that don't perform verifications is bananas. In fact the reason why so many people were wary of the Catanolian independence referendum was there was no verification mechanism in place so there was no way to guarantee people was not voting more than once at different tables.


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poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Utopian Galt <=-

Utopian Galt wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

Re: Re: Bbsing
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Bf2k+ on Tue Feb 17 2026 06:55 am

There's never been a presidential election swayed by illegal voting. There's more at work here.

The 1960 election would like to say something.

I meant "people in this country illegally" voting. Point taken about
the 1960 election, however.

Well.... do you think they would tell us if there was illegal voting
these days? Because I don't think they would.



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Re: Re: Bbsing
By: Utopian Galt to poindexter FORTRAN on Fri Feb 20 2026 09:14 pm

Re: Re: Bbsing
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Bf2k+ on Tue Feb 17 2026 06:55 am

There's never been a presidential election swayed by illegal voting. There's more at work here.

The 1960 election would like to say something.

As would the state of GA in 2020...

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Well.... do you think they would tell us if there was illegal voting
these days? Because I don't think they would.

I think they would if (1) they had hard evidence and (2) the voting was
not going in their party's favor.

So, if they know and it is benefiting them, they damn sure aren't going to
tell you about it.

Mike
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Re: Re: Bbsing
By: Bf2k+ to Utopian Galt on Sun Feb 22 2026 10:35 am

As would the state of GA in 2020...

Again, I meant to say illegal aliens voting.

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Re: Re: Bbsing
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Bf2k+ on Sun Feb 22 2026 04:57 pm

Re: Re: Bbsing
By: Bf2k+ to Utopian Galt on Sun Feb 22 2026 10:35 am

As would the state of GA in 2020...

Again, I meant to say illegal aliens voting.

you people are supposed to say UNDOCUMENTED TAX PAYER


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Re: Re: Bbsing
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Bf2k+ on Sun Feb 22 2026 04:57 pm

Re: Re: Bbsing
By: Bf2k+ to Utopian Galt on Sun Feb 22 2026 10:35 am

As would the state of GA in 2020...

Again, I meant to say illegal aliens voting.

I know you meant that. My comment was more based on illegal activities during voting...

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Re: Re: Bbsing
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Jim Singleton on Wed Feb 04 2026 03:13 pm

Jim Singleton wrote to Nightfox <=-

I remember having a cigarette vending machine in our cafeteria at work and being able to smoke at my desk at work in this time period.

My first boss, in the early '90s, used to regale us of stories of "work used to be". Smoking rooms, a "shine boy" for your shoes, coffee carts going from office to office. No voicemail, there were "the girls" in an office behind the front desk that wrote down messages and put them up at the front desk.

Odd to think that he was about the same age I am now.

"Why, in my day, we didn't have email, if something was important, you'd send a FAX!"

... Socks are carcinogenic.

we still use fax for a few things even today.
Jim Singleton
telnet://ricksbbs.synchro.net:23
http://ricksbbs.synchro.net:8080

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Re: Re: Bbsing
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Jim Singleton on Sun Feb 08 2026 08:53 am

Jim Singleton wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

We still use a fax machine/copier in my office from time to time.

I'm going through a thing at work where half of the older employees are pushing to upgrade our multi-function printers, the other half wonder
why they're bothering.

I do like being able to scan paper copy to PDFs, though.

i often think we are using more paper now than ever.
Jim Singleton
telnet://ricksbbs.synchro.net:23
http://ricksbbs.synchro.net:8080

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Jim Singleton wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

I do like being able to scan paper copy to PDFs, though.

i often think we are using more paper now than ever.

Hard no.

At my first job, we had a midrange computer managing ordering, sales,
inventory, accounting and GL for a university bookstore We had
terminals for sales lookups and ordering, but most of the business ran
on the reams of greenbar 11x17 paper reports I printed out after store
closing and distributed to mailboxes for morning pickup.

I mentioned earlier that I'm involved in office moves and setups, my
team handles IT. We had half of a new office asking to not move the
printer, the office head, who's my age, insisted that we get the
printer set up ASAP.



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Re: Re: Bbsing
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Jim Singleton on Sat Feb 28 2026 08:28 am

Jim Singleton wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

I do like being able to scan paper copy to PDFs, though.

i often think we are using more paper now than ever.

Hard no.

At my first job, we had a midrange computer managing ordering, sales,
inventory, accounting and GL for a university bookstore We had
terminals for sales lookups and ordering, but most of the business ran
on the reams of greenbar 11x17 paper reports I printed out after store
closing and distributed to mailboxes for morning pickup.

I mentioned earlier that I'm involved in office moves and setups, my
team handles IT. We had half of a new office asking to not move the
printer, the office head, who's my age, insisted that we get the
printer set up ASAP.

First get the computer side working then get that printer up and printing. I can remember a time when the single printer we had at work failed and I was sent out to a local 'computer store' immediately with cash to get a new one. That day.
Jim Singleton
telnet://ricksbbs.synchro.net:23
http://ricksbbs.synchro.net:8080

---
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